not sure their better at the level but as you move up the scale ofcourse the players are less likely to stay in with weak hands. i do believe that at about that 2-4 level you start seeing a few "sharks"...not really great players but the ones who lay in wait for great hands or obvious newbies. they never play unless they post blind, get a great opener or have position on a rookie...
When I say "bad" I mean players who play suboptimally often. When I refer to "play" I mean not only "calling when they should drop" but also betting improperly for their given hand, poor hand selection, etc.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with people who play this way since playing good poker can be incredibly boring especially when played online. Hell, I've blown more than my fair share of dimes just to get a little action. Fortunately, those occasions are few and far between.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with people who play this way since playing good poker can be incredibly boring especially when played online. Hell, I've blown more than my fair share of dimes just to get a little action. Fortunately, those occasions are few and far between.
The strange thing is when you see some of the same names playing poorly all the time. I play with this one player and I can't tell if she wins or loses. She is truly wild. If she gets a good hand (high pair (JJ-AA), two pair, or a set, weak flush or weak straight) she will not only bet the hand but she will also reraise and cap until the hands are shown.
JJ..she's capping preflop even though someone who reraises is likely to have QQ-AA.
If she flops or turns 2 pair she's reriasing and capping all the way even though a reraiser probably has a higher two pair or set.
A set, HA!...she's reraising and capping even if it is bottom set.
A straight using four board cards open..she's reraising and capping even if she has the idiot end.
A flush..10 high is good enough for her even if four flush cards are on board...here's a reraise and cap for ya.
BTW, she raises EVERY pocket pair she is dealt and will call to the river even if she doesn't flop a set unless there is more than one person in the pot.
She NEVER folds JJ-AA postflop until she sees the river card and she'll likely call UNLESS there are more than 2 over cards on board AND four to a straight or flush. If she has JJ and there is a King on board and two players, she's calling that river bet unless there is a raise. Even then she may call.
The betting is not an issue since in many cases it is a good play. Where it gets weird is that she doesn't care about reraises and her opponents' aggression. If her hand is half decent she will do everything possible to get the last raise/bet into the pot.
I've seen her run her buy-in up a bit ALMOST as many times as I've seen her rebuy over and over again. She does occasionally book a win because players often get too crazy when they don't have the nuts or even close and she happens to get the nuts or close to it. For example, they see her cap the betting with a 10 high flush and they will cap next time with a Jack high flush but she'll have the King that time. They may turn a middle set but she flopped top set. She is impossible to push around and where she wins big pots is when people get crazy and try to challenge her with less than the nuts or second nuts.
Of course she busted me when we both flopped a set and I was happy to reraise and cap the betting with the second nuts until she caught her ONE OUT on the river to get 4 of a kind with threes. It was a crazy pot with a few players calling all sorts of bets (i.e. AK calling capped betting with a pair. You have to know at that point someone at a minimum flopped 2 pair. KQ calling the turn to catch a single King.).
It didn't bother me too much since I know that she plays fairly often and that I've won more than my fair share from her and will continue to do so.
This is far from high limits; 10/20 which is probably the highest of low limits/beginning of middle limits.
JJ..she's capping preflop even though someone who reraises is likely to have QQ-AA.
If she flops or turns 2 pair she's reriasing and capping all the way even though a reraiser probably has a higher two pair or set.
A set, HA!...she's reraising and capping even if it is bottom set.
A straight using four board cards open..she's reraising and capping even if she has the idiot end.
A flush..10 high is good enough for her even if four flush cards are on board...here's a reraise and cap for ya.
BTW, she raises EVERY pocket pair she is dealt and will call to the river even if she doesn't flop a set unless there is more than one person in the pot.
She NEVER folds JJ-AA postflop until she sees the river card and she'll likely call UNLESS there are more than 2 over cards on board AND four to a straight or flush. If she has JJ and there is a King on board and two players, she's calling that river bet unless there is a raise. Even then she may call.
The betting is not an issue since in many cases it is a good play. Where it gets weird is that she doesn't care about reraises and her opponents' aggression. If her hand is half decent she will do everything possible to get the last raise/bet into the pot.
I've seen her run her buy-in up a bit ALMOST as many times as I've seen her rebuy over and over again. She does occasionally book a win because players often get too crazy when they don't have the nuts or even close and she happens to get the nuts or close to it. For example, they see her cap the betting with a 10 high flush and they will cap next time with a Jack high flush but she'll have the King that time. They may turn a middle set but she flopped top set. She is impossible to push around and where she wins big pots is when people get crazy and try to challenge her with less than the nuts or second nuts.
Of course she busted me when we both flopped a set and I was happy to reraise and cap the betting with the second nuts until she caught her ONE OUT on the river to get 4 of a kind with threes. It was a crazy pot with a few players calling all sorts of bets (i.e. AK calling capped betting with a pair. You have to know at that point someone at a minimum flopped 2 pair. KQ calling the turn to catch a single King.).
It didn't bother me too much since I know that she plays fairly often and that I've won more than my fair share from her and will continue to do so.
This is far from high limits; 10/20 which is probably the highest of low limits/beginning of middle limits.
I'm saying her because the player has a female avitar. I could be wrong and frankly could care less if it was a he, she, dog, cat, or monkey as long as the play remains the same.
Frankly, it can be fun playing against her but you can lose a lot as well and be a bit frustrated if she catches. Imagine capping preflop betting 3 ways when you have KK, getting 3 bets in on the flop when no Ace comes, and calling turn and river bets only to see at showdown that she flopped a set of 4s.
She is more frustrating to play than someone who calls all the time and sucks out. She bets and raises into you when there are many hands that beat her and THEN she sucks out. That's a nightmare.
Frankly, it can be fun playing against her but you can lose a lot as well and be a bit frustrated if she catches. Imagine capping preflop betting 3 ways when you have KK, getting 3 bets in on the flop when no Ace comes, and calling turn and river bets only to see at showdown that she flopped a set of 4s.
She is more frustrating to play than someone who calls all the time and sucks out. She bets and raises into you when there are many hands that beat her and THEN she sucks out. That's a nightmare.
i haven't seen too many players like that. the ones i am talking about are the guys that just call when they should run. they call and call and call, then drop after the river or just lose with inferior cards. i wish i could find a live game with people who do that.
this on line game brings out the suckers boy.
this on line game brings out the suckers boy.
swami, the player you describe sounds familiar. I see players like that locally in 15/30 and its hard to play against them. As you say they can put the whole table on tilt. At least when offline you can manoeuvre for position.
BTW, I find a difference between 1/2 and 2/4 at Party Poker. At 1/2 I play 4 tables solely on the value of my hand but at 2/4 I encounter some players who think and have to be a little more aware.
BTW, I find a difference between 1/2 and 2/4 at Party Poker. At 1/2 I play 4 tables solely on the value of my hand but at 2/4 I encounter some players who think and have to be a little more aware.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Woody0:
swami, the player you describe sounds familiar. I see players like that locally in 15/30 and its hard to play against them. As you say they can put the whole table on tilt. At least when offline you can manoeuvre for position....SNIP <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Woody0-
That's one problem on-line, you can't change seats. Depending on the table make-up, my opinion of whether I would rather be to her immediate right or left changes DRAMATICALLY.
When you mention that it can be "hard" to play against player like this I totally agree. I think it may be possible that she is a winner because: 1) If she catches good cards experienced players have to pretty much call her down if they have a decent hand. Poor players will lose a ton because they try to fight her. and 2) If she has poor starting hands but gets lucky she wins huge because she is betting and raising and sucking out on gut shots, 2 outers, and runner runner hands.
I've seen this play live as well but not to the extent I see it online. Unfortunately, in live poker the "good" players will berate the player and he will generally leave the table. That doesn't seem to happen as much online. I guess the written comments don't sting as much.
In your experience, does this type of player win long-term?
She always offers me the greatest challenge since she puts me in tough spots but basically if she and I are heads-up I have to call her down even if I have as little as Ace high. With that said, I think she likely knows what she is doing since I've seen her make various adjustments and change her betting patterns slightly against me and a few other players. Essentially, after a substantial investment she realizes who she really can't f&$k with and gets a bit more passive at the turn and river with decent players but remains substantially more agressive with most others.
swami, the player you describe sounds familiar. I see players like that locally in 15/30 and its hard to play against them. As you say they can put the whole table on tilt. At least when offline you can manoeuvre for position....SNIP <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Woody0-
That's one problem on-line, you can't change seats. Depending on the table make-up, my opinion of whether I would rather be to her immediate right or left changes DRAMATICALLY.
When you mention that it can be "hard" to play against player like this I totally agree. I think it may be possible that she is a winner because: 1) If she catches good cards experienced players have to pretty much call her down if they have a decent hand. Poor players will lose a ton because they try to fight her. and 2) If she has poor starting hands but gets lucky she wins huge because she is betting and raising and sucking out on gut shots, 2 outers, and runner runner hands.
I've seen this play live as well but not to the extent I see it online. Unfortunately, in live poker the "good" players will berate the player and he will generally leave the table. That doesn't seem to happen as much online. I guess the written comments don't sting as much.
In your experience, does this type of player win long-term?
She always offers me the greatest challenge since she puts me in tough spots but basically if she and I are heads-up I have to call her down even if I have as little as Ace high. With that said, I think she likely knows what she is doing since I've seen her make various adjustments and change her betting patterns slightly against me and a few other players. Essentially, after a substantial investment she realizes who she really can't f&$k with and gets a bit more passive at the turn and river with decent players but remains substantially more agressive with most others.
